#765290 - 09/14/08 12:40 PM
Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
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corylpoco
Stranger
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 7
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Hi. I am brand new to this site. I cannot even figure out how to create my own post in order to ask some questions. My beginning question is: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor? I have an extensive pain history and have had much difficulty finding a doctor who will help prescribe the level of relief that I need on an ongoing basis. I never want to do anything illegal, and I am just looking for information about the actual Rules. Any assitance that you could give about these matters and also on how to start posting on my own would be much appreciated. Thank you.
Edited by Administrator (09/14/08 12:48 PM)
Edit Reason: changed title, edited a bit, and moved to it's own thread
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#765338 - 09/14/08 02:18 PM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: corylpoco]
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pokerboy
Journeyman
Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 97
Loc: UK
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The law states that if there is a doctor-patient relationship its legal.
If you order drugs without prescription from another country and those drugs are not available in your country without prescription, this is not legal.
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#765347 - 09/14/08 02:53 PM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: corylpoco]
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stevo1
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1734
Loc: Top of The World!
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Well that all depends who you are dealing with! The laws on the books say it is Legal to do so.....Unless your the DEA who say's that anything they want to be Illegal Is Illegal(reguardless of what the Laws really are)!!...Execpt for a Few States that have Made Laws That Specifically say it is Illegal. Your Best Bet is to go with an OCS that does a Once a Year Face 2 Face ....If it is available in your State.
Good Luck
Stevo
_________________________
Stare into my Avatar.....You are getting Sleepy....Very Sleepy....Relax.....  Don't Sweat The Small Stuff - It's All Small Stuff!
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#765562 - 09/14/08 08:28 PM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: PrivateRealm]
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corylpoco
Stranger
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 7
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How do I find out what the laws are in my state?
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#765565 - 09/14/08 08:31 PM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: stevo1]
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corylpoco
Stranger
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 7
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How does one go about setting up the once a year face to face with a doctor that will prescribe what is actually needed?
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#765568 - 09/14/08 08:33 PM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: pokerboy]
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corylpoco
Stranger
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 7
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Can the doctor-patient relationship be online only and still be legal? In any state? If so, how would I start this process?
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#765640 - 09/15/08 01:17 AM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: pokerboy]
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pokerboy
Journeyman
Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 97
Loc: UK
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I should have pointed out i'm quoting UK laws here, of course it's different for the US. But basically, buying controlled drugs without a prescription is illegal.
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#765641 - 09/15/08 01:20 AM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: pokerboy]
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pokerboy
Journeyman
Registered: 09/10/08
Posts: 97
Loc: UK
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If your'e having a consultation with a doctor, whether online or not, I think your'e OK, although it may be a bit of a grey area in some US states. But really I think you're on fairly safe ground. DONT WORRY.
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#765651 - 09/15/08 01:58 AM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: corylpoco]
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patient2all
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 3473
Loc: usa
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Coryloco,
Care to tell us what state you are in? Sadly it makes a lot of difference.....
Don't worry, the DEA won't come busting down your door if you mention your state.
I'll break the ice, I'm in NJ 
We'd like to help.
patient2all
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#765657 - 09/15/08 03:37 AM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: corylpoco]
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stevevi
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1015
Loc: In the snow again
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The once a year face to face consultation is mandated by a few OCS. A read through the "Comprehensive OCS" list on this site should give you more info as to which is better for you.
It should be noted, and I will be corrected if I am wrong, that even without the "once a year", depending on which state you are in, though it may be in the gray area I don't believe you have anything to worry about as far as legal repercussions. That is unless you double dip, which is ordering and getting prescribed the same or like medications from more than 1 doctor at a time for the same condition.
I know where I live, I can legally be prescribed hydrocodone and oxycodone for the same condition. It has to do with how the scripts are written. As someone stated in an earlier post, the law (or even the gray area of the law) varies widely from state to state. I am pretty sure that no matter the laws in the state, you as the individual, can not legally get into trouble without going into the double-dipping stuff.
The state may at some point try to close the OCS down, but that would have nothing to do with the patient unless the patient is breaking the law.
Waiting to be corrected by someone...............
_________________________
Happy 2009
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#765687 - 09/15/08 05:44 AM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: stevevi]
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rkjones
Veteran
Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 560
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Buying controlled substances online without a valid prescription may be punishable by imprisonment under Federal law.
A face to face is basically a physical, labs, x-rays if needed, medical history, etc... with a doctor in your state or another. It documents past meds, past conditions, current condition, medications and anything that states what you have or need to be treated for and what you are/were treated with.
The DEA, goverment and many states feel the "face to face" examination is what establishes the doctor patient relationship and without this it is NOT legal to obtain narcotics online. The defination to what exactly is a "face to face" is the grey area that the online consultation serices or OCS has been able to use in order to prescribe to people online. Several states have written and passed laws that do define the face to face in detail and even state further an online consultation with another doctors face to face records DO NOT count and make an online consultation using these records legal. They state the face to face must be with the prescribing physcian not one with another physcians records. There is legislation nationally trying to be passed that desccribes it completely and indepth that would apply to all 50 states, making it illegal without the face to face with the prescribing doctor which would apply to all states and clealry define it and close up the grey area. If that happens noone would be able to order with a records online service either, nor will they be able to stay in busines.
Article FDA and DEA online drug sales from questionare only illegal
""If a prescription is written by a doctor based solely on information from an online questionnaire, it's not valid, so the distribution is illegal." Thus, the task force may target Internet Pharmacies based in the U.S. that have operated by hiring doctors to write prescriptions based on such questionnaires.
Thus far, only those selling the medications have been at risk of prosecution but, regulators are hinting that those who order the drugs may face prosecution.
The above is written inmany sites and is the basis for the following: A NROP or IOP is illegal period! It clearly states a doctor that prescribes based soley on an online questionnare is ILLEGAL.
Afew have been arrested insome states signing for pakages from NROPs and OCSs, some were using false info but I know of somewho were or did use their medical records and were still arrested and prosecuted. This does not have to involve double dipping or buying large quanities. It is a gamble you choose to take.
[b]
CONSUMER ALERT
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
READ THIS BEFORE PURCHASING PRESCRIPTION DRUGS OVER THE INTERNET !!!
DEA Warning--Buying drugs online may be illegal and dangerous!
Federal law prohibits buying controlled substances such as narcotic pain relievers (e.g., OxyContin®, Vicodin ®), sedatives (e.g., Valium®, Xanax®, Ambien®), stimulants (e.g., phentermine, phendimetrazine, Adderall®, Ritalin®) and anabolic steroids (e.g., Winstrol®, Equipoise®) without a valid prescription from your doctor. This means there must be a real doctor-patient relationship, which by most state laws requires a physical examination. Prescriptions written by "cyber doctors" relying on online questionnaires are not legitimate under the law.
Buying controlled substances online without a valid prescription may be punishable by imprisonment under Federal law. Often drugs ordered from rogue websites come from foreign countries. It is a felony to import drugs into the United States and ship to a non-DEA registrant.
Buying drugs online may not be only illegal, but dangerous. The American Medical Association and state boards of medicine and pharmacy have all condemned the practice of cyber doctors issuing online prescriptions as unacceptable medical care. Drugs delivered by rogue websites may be the wrong drugs, adulterated or expired, the wrong dosage strength, or have no dosage directions or warnings.
DEA is targeting rogue online pharmacies for prosecution and shutting down these illegal websites. See the results of one such investigation, Operation Cyber Chase, at http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/pressrel/pr042005.html.
How to spot a rogue pharmacy: http://www.DEAdiversion.usdoj.gov/faq/internetpurch.htm
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#765693 - 09/15/08 06:05 AM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: rkjones]
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stevevi
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1015
Loc: In the snow again
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READ THIS BEFORE PURCHASING PRESCRIPTION DRUGS OVER THE INTERNET !!!
DEA Warning--Buying drugs online may be illegal and dangerous!
Why does this not say buying drugs online IS illegal?
Anyone?
_________________________
Happy 2009
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#765825 - 09/15/08 10:12 AM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: stevevi]
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Bluefairy
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 06/27/07
Posts: 1027
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Because there are laws in some states that clearly prohibit this, but in others there are not.
Depends on whether the individual state mandates Face-to-face.
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#766095 - 09/15/08 03:43 PM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: stevevi]
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Donnell
Stranger
Registered: 08/13/08
Posts: 6
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where would i find a good online doctor to prescribe the medication i need for my chronic pain?
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#766238 - 09/15/08 07:24 PM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: patient2all]
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corylpoco
Stranger
Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 7
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I am in Idaho.
Thanks.
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#766397 - 09/16/08 03:54 AM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: stevevi]
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rkjones
Veteran
Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 560
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READ THIS BEFORE PURCHASING PRESCRIPTION DRUGS OVER THE INTERNET !!!
DEA Warning--Buying drugs online may be illegal and dangerous! Why does this not say buying drugs online IS illegal? Anyone?
As taken from link to the dept. of justice link and the dea link posted "Federal law prohibits buying controlled substances such as narcotic pain relievers (e.g., OxyContin®, Vicodin ®), sedatives (e.g., Valium®, Xanax®, Ambien®), stimulants (e.g., phentermine, phendimetrazine, Adderall®, Ritalin®) and anabolic steroids (e.g., Winstrol®, Equipoise®) without a valid prescription from your doctor. This means there must be a real doctor-patient relationship, which by most state laws requires a physical examination. Prescriptions written by "cyber doctors" relying on online questionnaires are not legitimate under the law"
Ask those arrested that were not DDing but got arrested at fedex. I know a couple of long time posters that were arrested, one they wanted info in exchange for immunity, the other found guilty, fined and placed on probation. One was charged under a florida law and criminal charge tthat basically stated he should have known or been suspicious of, therefore would have known what the party was doing was illegal and had he pursued it rather than participating would have found out it was illegal. Got to call and ask exactly what the name of the charge was legally. I had never heard of it before.
_________________________
Watch your THOUGHTS for They become your words
Watch your WORDS for They become your actions
Watch your ACTIONS for They become your habits
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#766452 - 09/16/08 06:46 AM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: stevevi]
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rkjones
Veteran
Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 560
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I believe it says "May" versus "IS" because federal law states "ILLEGAL" without the Doctor-Patient Relationship which was not defined really at all when the federal law was originally written. Because of this so called loop hole, the NROPs, OCSs and etc had been able to operate. Once the attention was brought to online purchasing of narcotics from the US as well as overseas, the forces that be scrambled to find a way to close some if not all of the gap. Since the efforts to do that federally remains just a bill in the house, not law, the individual states began to act by changing the state laws to define it and protect themselves.
The first fedral laws were intended and aimed for the international shippers and the NROPs in my opinion, those using just an online questionare (SP?) The OCS were still a working model at that time for us as these law agencies were not challenging the defination of the doctor-patient relationship other than to succesfully run out the NROP's using only their questionare. The smarter business owners were running what we knew as OPs so they simply changed the way the did business online and began requiring medical records that fiirst off had a physical from the last 6 to 12months, current lab, your condition/s and the medications you were ordering.
This subject was so hot, deaths involving teenagers, even the law redefined would not have prevented but they went after all online prescribers and the pharmacies that ship for them.
We had NROPs, International sources, the online pharmacy model, and eventually what we have today the online consultation Service. Weall knew this wascoming and a lot of us worked ard to bring awareness and attend thepainmarches in Washington to bring our suffering and lack of treatment options due to these laws. They weren't curbing the illegal sales only as they anticipated but were jailing thousands of pain physcians and forcing the other docs to become afraid to prescribe to us so we turned to online sales which for a nice price you could function half a day at least We were adocating way back then for our rights as chronic pain patients and tried to make every aware the present day was coming and eventually we would see not onlyphyscians jailed but patients as well and this is a reality now.
The states that changed their laws and now those chronic pain patiens can't get local treatment and now the OCS won't ship either due to the doctor-patient relationship has been defined as face to face! They are jailing not only brick and mortar physcians but online physcians as well as the patients, not just closing brick and mortar pain clinics but the online consultation services and this willcontinue to get worse till we noo longer can order online without the OCS changing the model to one you must go in every so many months for your face to face and I don't think that will work as they would have to open clinics to do it and what would make them less likely to be busted as any other pain clinics now?
Anyway,my thinking is they used the word MAY rather rhan IS because the federal law is waiting to be defined and until such time, the individual state laws apply therefore if you order to Kentucky online it IS illegal, order to Ohio and it only MAY be.
_________________________
Watch your THOUGHTS for They become your words
Watch your WORDS for They become your actions
Watch your ACTIONS for They become your habits
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#766478 - 09/16/08 07:53 AM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: stevevi]
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Mr_Blu_Shoes
Member
Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 145
Loc: A Member in Good Standings
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Illegal or Legal, this is a huge question. Remember the government can arrest you now for almost anything they want to. Most US citizen's rights have been disolved BUT Health care of the future (is here) includes a majority of online services including meds and this is the facts of life.
No person or entity will ever be able to control or restrict the PRIVATE meetings between you and your doctor, face to face, phone to ear, or virtually on the internet. Citizens of the United States do not want the government in this hallowed area of our life. Our health is about as private as our religon, our politics and our sex lives.
The online examination or evaluation of a patient, prescribing their treatment to include meds, diet, exercise and lifestyle is here. This is the future of heath care in America.(and the world).
What citizens really want is the METH,CRACK, HEROIN, COCAINE and all these other illegal drugs off our streets. This is the larger task and has nothing do with the health care in America other than the destruction of the people who get tangled up in this mess. This should be job #1 !!
And you have to love the use of the word rogue by the government. Have they looked at the definition of this word??
It's just funny to have a "slangish" word in official publications. It does go to show you how much "they" HATE this behavior of buying meds online. Danm Rogues!! I wished they hated the illegal street drug trade as much as they hate virtual health care. Our streets would be so much safer for our less fortunate citizens who have to live in these enviroments!
The dictionary defines rogue (noun):
1. a dishonest, knavish person; scoundrel.
2. a playfully mischievous person; scamp: The youngest boys are little rogues.
3. a tramp or vagabond.
4. a rogue elephant or other animal of similar disposition.
5. Biology. a usually inferior organism, esp. a plant, varying markedly from the normal.
You can't make the future illegal!
MBS
Edited by Mr_Blu_Shoes (09/16/08 08:06 AM)
Edit Reason: grammer
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#766490 - 09/16/08 08:14 AM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: Mr_Blu_Shoes]
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stevo1
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1734
Loc: Top of The World!
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Blu.....You Hit the Nail on the Head!!! Excellent Post 
Our Fascist Government needs to Get Out of our Personal Private Business!!, Leave Us Alone!! & Go After The Real Criminals & Stop treating Us CPers as CRIMINALS!!!
Stevo
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#766613 - 09/16/08 11:13 AM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: corylpoco]
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patient2all
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 05/16/02
Posts: 3473
Loc: usa
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Stepping away from this at the Federal level, does anyone know about Idaho?
That's a tough one because it's not a state we hear much about (nothing personal to you Idahoans ).
Any other Idaho folks have experience with online Rx's? Do they tend to have any unusual laws.
I was hoping Corylpoco would say s/he lived in one of the states we talk about a lot, CA, NY, TN, FL, IL etc.
There wasn't much that I could see on the Idaho BOP site, just a repeat of the FDA warning about buying drugs online could be fake, adulterated, the usual....
-----
IMO, it may take a while for the face-to-face to get there. Places offering it tend to be starting up more in the metropolitan areas so far.
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Hopefully, some other Idaho folks out there would be kind enough to chime in to either put CorylPoco's mind at relative ease or warn of any "special" Rules there.
Good luck,
patient2all
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#766653 - 09/16/08 11:59 AM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: dawn147]
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Mr_Blu_Shoes
Member
Registered: 07/14/07
Posts: 145
Loc: A Member in Good Standings
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Thank you Stevo!!
We, the citizens, may have never gone to the internet to get our heath care so quickly IF if the government had not intimidated and scared the local doctors in our country: telling them, " pain meds are bad and if you prescribe them, we will be watching you !! Closely!"
NOW, as they watch the doctor -patient relationship look at what has happened... And this is fact : The US leads the world in illegal drug use (including the Netherlands) and we are not talking about pain pills..OK?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/01/health/webmd/main4222322.shtml .. read this and look at where the focus is.
You are not going to bust crack, coke or herion dealers in a danm doctor's office!!!
Someone is not doing their jobs, spending more time and efforts on doctor/patient relationships and not enough time on the streets WHERE THE DANM PROBLEMS ARE!!! I support this agency 100% when they are doing the job that they supposed to be doing, getting illegal dangerous drugs off our streets!
I'm sorry but I have an 11 year old daughter and this scares me to death!! All parents should be concerned.
We have a Super_Huge drug enforcement administration with billions and billions of dollar budgets with a track record like this??? They should be glad I'm not the boss!!
MBS
Edited by Mr_Blu_Shoes (09/16/08 12:26 PM)
Edit Reason: grammer, spelling
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#766712 - 09/16/08 01:18 PM
Re: Is it legal to order pain and anxiety medications online with an online doctor?
[Re: dawn147]
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PrivateRealm
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 3067
Loc: In my realm, I'm QUEEN
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the government can arrest you now for almost anything they want to. This statement is so scary, it leads me to believe (that we indeed do not live in a free country?) Why aren't there more protests going on....or just is society asleep? Or more likely we are so impacted with our every day problems. Trying to keep our homes and our jobs. But getting back to that LAW which congress is about to pass, Who will benefit from it? BTW MR blue thanks for your reply it is well noted
We don't, at least not a truely free country. If we did, there would be NO laws and total chaos. But we are free(er) than some other countries. In the end, Big Brother always wins.
_________________________
Anne~~~
"A person's true identity is rarely apparent in the life that they lead."
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