#788027 - 10/20/08 04:54 AM
Is this Truly the end?
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Kukoc
Journeyman
Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 57
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OK, I don't want to start a panic, just educated answer's only please. I have been a loooooooooong time manily lurker with this online scene, but trust me I have been around since the old days of click and recive orders(think tropics) used Buymeds.....etc.....I have watched many times people proclaiming the end and somehow the business always stays afloat through some grey area....but I now have the tingling in the back of my neck that this is it...just a feeling, based on what I have read/seen happening. What do you all think..please no hystera just honest gut feelings. thanks
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#788046 - 10/20/08 05:53 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: RubixCubeTO]
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hickboy
Journeyman
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 69
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I agree, I think the OCS's will find a loop hole, and keep going, they might not advertise as much but I think they'll still keep going and change names ect. I don't think this is the end. This is just my gut feeling. The thing that scares me is let say I do travel to do the 1 yr face to face, what if all of the sudden the company then closes up shop then I'm really screwed out of money that's what I'm scared of.
Edited by hickboy (10/20/08 05:56 AM)
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#788058 - 10/20/08 06:45 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: hickboy]
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Nicename
Newbie
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 30
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This was a long time coming and we all know this. IMO, The OCS market will be all but gone within the year. The politicians specifically must be tired of looking completely ineffective regarding prescription drugs issues overall. This is a low-hanging fruit that they have left on the tree far too long. No more loop-holes for them, the OCS fruit is overly ripe.
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#788085 - 10/20/08 08:05 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: dawn147]
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hickboy
Journeyman
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 69
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Thats so true Dawn147, good point!! If they would of done somemore investigating into it they might of thought different, you'd think theres gotta be a lot of Govt. officials out there that are also dealing with pain and on the same meds, but I'm sure it's a tough thing to bring up without people thinking there druggies, it's to bad.....
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#788090 - 10/20/08 08:15 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: dawn147]
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jjng5
Enthusiast
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 291
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I don't think this is the end. There is too many of us out there and too much money to be made. If this industry was smart, they would hire a couple lobbyists to sit in washington. If every OCS company put aside 5% of their profits and organized, they could have fought this bill long before it was written.
I have seen things change, get harder, etc. but we all vote with our wallets and these OCS will never give up. They will find the state with the most loopholes to operate out of and do the same with their pharmacies. Watch and see...
Who am I mad at? 1) Myself for voting for a democrat for Senate. This bill was introduced by the democrats. (
2) The OCS industry for making millions of dollars every year and not being smart enough to hire a lobbyist for $20,000 each. If every OCS service agreed to buy one lobbyist, there would have been as many lobbyists as their are Senators to push this bill down. Lobbyist work for many industries at the same time and push for several causes.
(3) The mother of the teenage junkie that overdosed on Morphine! The vicodin in his system wasn't the problem. How dare this [censored] lose her son and then seek to spread pain across the thousands-millions who reply on telemedicine and who do not have insurance. Because your son took advantage of this industry, you are going to seek to ruin it for those who require it for legitimate use. I have a son too. Should he suffer while his dad cannot get out of bed to play with him because of his pain?
(4) Our political system. I wrote to my Congressman before I voted for him to let him know that my issue was pain management and how I relied on this industry. I'm sure I was long forgotten when that vote was proposed.
Hang in there folks. Prices might go up, it might be hard for a while. Eventually competition will bring the prices back down. But this industry will live on. jjng5
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#788097 - 10/20/08 08:24 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: jjng5]
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jjng5
Enthusiast
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 291
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Make sure that you remember the names of these individuals and have you and your family vote against them!
Sponsor: Rep Stupak, Bart [MI-1]
Co-Sponsors: Rep Bachmann, Michele [MN-6] - 7/22/2008 Rep Bono Mack, Mary [CA-45] - 6/24/2008 Rep Boucher, Rick [VA-9] - 6/24/2008 Rep Chabot, Steve [OH-1] - 6/24/2008 Rep Davis, Danny K. [IL-7] - 6/26/2008 Rep Feeney, Tom [FL-24] - 6/24/2008 Rep Gallegly, Elton [CA-24] - 6/24/2008 Rep Levin, Sander M. [MI-12] - 7/9/2008 Rep Lungren, Daniel E. [CA-3] - 6/24/2008 Rep Napolitano, Grace F. [CA-38] - 7/24/2008 Rep Smith, Lamar [TX-21] - 6/24/2008 Rep Souder, Mark E. [IN-3] - 9/15/2008 Rep Walz, Timothy J. [MN-1] - 6/24/2008
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#788100 - 10/20/08 08:27 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: jjng5]
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jjng5
Enthusiast
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 291
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Also,
I would vote against Obama for president. His running mate co-sponsored a similar bill and has been a leader to fight against "rogue pharmacy sites"
Sen Biden, Joseph R., Jr. [DE] - 3/26/2007
S.980 Title: A bill to amend the Controlled Substances Act to address online pharmacies.
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#788103 - 10/20/08 08:43 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: jjng5]
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funkybreakz
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/24/04
Posts: 1307
Loc: My Living Room
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I don't think this is the end. There is too many of us out there and too much money to be made. If this industry was smart, they would hire a couple lobbyists to sit in washington. If every OCS company put aside 5% of their profits and organized, they could have fought this bill long before it was written. I have seen things change, get harder, etc. but we all vote with our wallets and these OCS will never give up. They will find the state with the most loopholes to operate out of and do the same with their pharmacies. Watch and see... Who am I mad at? 1) Myself for voting for a democrat for Senate. This bill was introduced by the democrats. ( 2) The OCS industry for making millions of dollars every year and not being smart enough to hire a lobbyist for $20,000 each. If every OCS service agreed to buy one lobbyist, there would have been as many lobbyists as their are Senators to push this bill down. Lobbyist work for many industries at the same time and push for several causes. (3) The mother of the teenage junkie that overdosed on Morphine! The vicodin in his system wasn't the problem. How dare this [censored] lose her son and then seek to spread pain across the thousands-millions who reply on telemedicine and who do not have insurance. Because your son took advantage of this industry, you are going to seek to ruin it for those who require it for legitimate use. I have a son too. Should he suffer while his dad cannot get out of bed to play with him because of his pain? (4) Our political system. I wrote to my Congressman before I voted for him to let him know that my issue was pain management and how I relied on this industry. I'm sure I was long forgotten when that vote was proposed. Hang in there folks. Prices might go up, it might be hard for a while. Eventually competition will bring the prices back down. But this industry will live on. jjng5
excellent post!
maybe one of the best i have read about this bill!
_________________________
cat on a tin roof, dogs in a pile, nothin left to do but smile smile smile!
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#788123 - 10/20/08 09:10 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: funkybreakz]
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jjng5
Enthusiast
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 291
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It is just stupid and greedy for these OCS owners to think that they are powerless. Money = power and together they are making 10's of millions each and every year, that is a fact.
My god if the tobacco industry can kill thousands of people everyday with their product and advertise to children in deceptive ways, why is it so unthinkable for uninsured Americans with chronic pain to be treated online in this online world we live in?
If the tanning industry and make skin cancer machines and allow 14 year olds to use them, why can't an uninsured American with anxiety be treated for his condition online?
If guns can still be sold at gun shows without requiring a background check or a waiting period, why can't an uninsured American with a sleep disorder be treated online?
The answer: lobbyists! Our industry killed one person so far compared to those above? And we can even play the sympathy card. Reframe the issue of killing the whole industry to going after the "rogue sites" NROP's.
The OCS industry was greedy and thought short-term. They screwed themselves as much as they screwed us. For years they've done nothing and yet they do everything possible to adapt to ever new law, every DEA move, every raid on their offices... but nothing to prevent it!
Why aren't tanning salons being raided? Why aren't 7/11's being shut down for killing people with the sale of cigarettes? Why aren't gun show operators arrested and fined? They are smart enough to organize and hire lobbyists.
OCS owners out there: ban together and do something about it instead of always reacting! Wake up people. My god, if you guys organized it think of the donations you would get from all of us as well! You don't have to go it alone. Work smarter not harder...
jjng5
Edited by jjng5 (10/20/08 09:14 AM)
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#788145 - 10/20/08 09:50 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: dawn147]
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jjng5
Enthusiast
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 291
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The DARE program is making Ryan a hero
I hope something happens to Ryan's little brother when he gets older and the kid ends up with chronic pain and cannot find anyone to treat him.
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#788146 - 10/20/08 09:52 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: jjng5]
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stevevi
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1018
Loc: In the snow again
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I hope something happens to Ryan's little brother when he gets older and the kid ends up with chronic pain and cannot find anyone to treat him.
I don't wish that on anyone. That is pretty cold.
_________________________
Happy 2009
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#788151 - 10/20/08 10:01 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: stevevi]
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Kukoc
Journeyman
Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 57
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Good answer's everyone...I hope i am wrong...I tried a few week's ago, got down to no pills, but the pain forced me to miss work so I placed my order and I am back working...what will happen when I can't place an order or the price is to high...My Dr says I can mange on my own.....yea if walking with a cane in my forties is managing then that's great.......anyway this is a imporant election, things are changing some good some not.....
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#788157 - 10/20/08 10:11 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: stevevi]
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jjng5
Enthusiast
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 291
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I hope something happens to Ryan's little brother when he gets older and the kid ends up with chronic pain and cannot find anyone to treat him.
I don't wish that on anyone. That is pretty cold.
What's cold is having legitimate chronic pain in this country and not being able to find treatment. Cold is being treated like a junkie because you are in pain. Cold is spending Christmas and Thanksgiving day not with your kids but instead in bed praying for just a little relief. Cold is knowing there are groups out there fighting to make things even harder for you and your family...
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#788161 - 10/20/08 10:15 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: Kukoc]
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hickboy
Journeyman
Registered: 06/01/08
Posts: 69
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Good point about big tabbacco and tanning, and Kukoc good point also, I run a landscape business and I love the work I do but if I can't find the medication to relieve the pain same thing will be landscaping with a cane. Health insurance is tough to have when your self emplyoyed, it sucks makes me kinda wanna move out of the country go somewhere where they understand. Pretty scary whats going on!!!!
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#788163 - 10/20/08 10:21 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: Kukoc]
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tj44
Old Hand
Registered: 06/14/05
Posts: 400
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I read NNCIPs front page and my best guess is that they are doing what most of the reputable OCS are busy at right now. Initially I had hoped that we would all have 180 days to figure it out and continue to get treated but it doesn't look that way. If the OCS can in fact recruit pm docs in every state to work for them at fair cost ($100-150 a consult) then we might have a chance of continued treatment sort of along this similar vein of hit a few keys and enter your cc. Just at first ie: once a year, we might have to travel to a hopefully really compassionate doctor. That would be a breath of fresh air. But I agree with the poster who said that there is too much $ to be made for the OCS to just shut down and walk away. We are a cash cow community and our unfortunate circumstances of life and suffering is their meal ticket. Just we will have to wait and see...
_________________________
If you can't be a good example - then you'll just have to be a terrible warning.
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#788166 - 10/20/08 10:36 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: jjng5]
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stevevi
Pooh-Bah
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1018
Loc: In the snow again
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I hope something happens to Ryan's little brother when he gets older and the kid ends up with chronic pain and cannot find anyone to treat him.
I don't wish that on anyone. That is pretty cold. What's cold is having legitimate chronic pain in this country and not being able to find treatment. Cold is being treated like a junkie because you are in pain. Cold is spending Christmas and Thanksgiving day not with your kids but instead in bed praying for just a little relief. Cold is knowing there are groups out there fighting to make things even harder for you and your family...
......and none of those are ryans' little brother.
I'm with you on the pain and not getting treated. I too am in that boat, but I don't want revenge on someone who has nothing to do with it.
_________________________
Happy 2009
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#788173 - 10/20/08 10:53 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: stevevi]
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jjng5
Enthusiast
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 291
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I agree. I take it back. However it is frustrating to see someone fight so hard against something they do not know about it.
I really wish OCS would ban together on Drugbuyers and put together a lobby effort. Many of us could even donate to the cause in both time/money. I wish someone could organize this to keep this industry going.
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#788200 - 10/20/08 11:47 AM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: jjng5]
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lextech
Threadhead
Registered: 07/26/05
Posts: 836
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It's the crazy laws that not only affect the Online part, but with all the talk of socialized medicine it scares me.If you think the government is in your doctor/patient relationship now good luck with getting anything when its run by the federal government. I mean i have used clinics for the lower income when i hit a hard time in life and F8ck Me if u couldn't get anything more then frigin over the counter for a cough lol! And you can forget any quality doctors besides maybe some foreigners that are here to study medicine for your physician on theses plans the Dems are trying to impose
And as it is starting now with doctors moving to "VIP" service you can prob expect to pay your physician a 2000 a year "out of pocket fee" to be their patient and it will just get worst under socialized medicine
Im sorry i vented .. don't even know if this belongs here lol or if i ranted about nothing, but it scares me that the new plan proposed under the Dem ticket will lead to more scrutiny of everything you and your doctor do ..and LEAD to the worst of the worst doctors
ok rant over lol
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#788216 - 10/20/08 12:26 PM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: lextech]
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tigersmom
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 5189
Loc: Witchville
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Considering the interference that HMOs for example exert over millions of American's Healthcare, your assertion that the Obama health plan (which will be administered by PRIVATE carriers) is completely off the mark. The Obama plan is NOT like the Health Care plans offered in Europe and Canada, in fact, NO American adult will have a mandate to sign onto the Federal Plan, and many Americans will choose to stay with their Employer's plan. BTW, when my Father was dying he was under the care of VA doctors at the VA Hospital in Los Angeles, and I couldn't have been happier with the care he received--received under a Federal Plan...sigh...if you are going to argue a specific point, could you at least educate yourself about it first?
_________________________
I am neither Liberal, nor Conservative...I am RATIONAL
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#788255 - 10/20/08 01:32 PM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: nitemoon]
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iris
Veteran
Registered: 05/26/04
Posts: 602
Loc: waitin for spring
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Back to the title, "Is This Truly The End". I dont think so. This is a million dollar industry. The big pharma is too involved & if anything, the new laws will weed out the "abusers" from the true pain patient. Trying to be optimistic but I think the middleman (OCS) will find Docs in our states or surrounding states & we will have to do a f2f every year or two. They will work the kinks out, I'm sure of it. Also, pain management will become a huge specialty & we will pay for this service...big time. But we pay quite the price right now. Consult, monthly service fee & over priced meds. They have 6 months to figure it out & the strong OP's will survive. A yearly trip to sunny Florida for a consult doesnt sound too bad.
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#788274 - 10/20/08 01:52 PM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: jjng5]
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tango5
Member
Registered: 02/13/07
Posts: 148
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I hate this bill along with thousands of others but I see why something was needed. A little stronger requirements like having webcams could have weeded out the teenagers or younger children from getting their hands on pain meds. Now the children they are trying to protect can still easily with a click of the mouse from over seas receive any anti anxiety med available which are just as dangerous. They accused this industry of that and that is not what was happening ANYMORE. I read repeatedly how easy it is to get pain meds and honestly I don't see it that way. I have to jump through hoops to get my records once a year. Explain over and over why I need them to my Dr. than sumbit them by fax to the service, wait all day afraid I might miss the call from another Dr. who is willing to relieve the pain and pay out the nose. Remember the problem they said was it's to easy to get these meds. The government is to far behind to justify why they did this without caring for the people in pain. No one in congress stood up against this bill that I know of so it's all of congress not just one or two members.
Also,
I would vote against Obama for president. His running mate co-sponsored a similar bill and has been a leader to fight against "rogue pharmacy sites"
Sen Biden, Joseph R., Jr. [DE] - 3/26/2007
S.980 Title: A bill to amend the Controlled Substances Act to address online pharmacies.
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#788278 - 10/20/08 01:58 PM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: nitemoon]
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tigersmom
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 07/20/05
Posts: 5189
Loc: Witchville
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My problem with both Obama's and McCain's health care plans is the fact that they may never come to be. Some people forget that congress will have to back either plan, which is going to be a nightmare.
Tigersmom, I know I replied to your post, but I am in no way implying that you are one of the people that don't know what goes into making a plan like this work. I just think that there are a lot of people voting out there that have no idea that the president doesn't just make up and law and poof, there it is. I have seen some really ignorant people on the news lately.
I understand all too well that Obama can't go "poof" and make Health Care happen, however, with a majority Democrat Congress, and a supportive electorate, I think that the Plan can get implemented--especially if Obama makes it a first term priority, which I believe he will do. BTW, I live in a State that has subsidzed Health Insurance and so far, so good.
_________________________
I am neither Liberal, nor Conservative...I am RATIONAL
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#788301 - 10/20/08 02:48 PM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: tigersmom]
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jjng5
Enthusiast
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 291
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Nationalized health care was tried in two states, CA and Mass. and in both states it is bankrupting the states and has been unsuccessful by most measures. CA had to turn back away from it because the costs got out of control.
However, this thread is not about Obama and McCain. Lets try to stay on topic with regards to this industry and this crappy bill.
This bill does not weed out drug abusers because no drug abusers can even get as far as a consultation without a stack of records anymore. Most all require X-Rays/MRI's now too and proof of previous prescriptions for the medications you are requesting. This bill will just make things cost more on us, keep the number of providers limited to a handful (for a while), overcrowd the providers, slow things way down, and make treatment a nightmare. This will never stop if this industry doesn't fight back in Washington with lobbyist and support. I've been watching this industry for a long while and this stuff just keeps happening and like idiots, the providers do absolutely nothing. It's insanity.
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#788302 - 10/20/08 02:50 PM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: Kukoc]
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OldandWorn
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/21/03
Posts: 7036
Loc: Norco, CA
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#788304 - 10/20/08 02:52 PM
Re: Is this Truly the end?
[Re: jjng5]
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OldandWorn
GRAND Pooh-Bah
Registered: 09/21/03
Posts: 7036
Loc: Norco, CA
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It is just stupid and greedy for these OCS owners to think that they are powerless. Money = power and together they are making 10's of millions each and every year, that is a fact. My god if the tobacco industry can kill thousands of people everyday with their product and advertise to children in deceptive ways, why is it so unthinkable for uninsured Americans with chronic pain to be treated online in this online world we live in? If the tanning industry and make skin cancer machines and allow 14 year olds to use them, why can't an uninsured American with anxiety be treated for his condition online? If guns can still be sold at gun shows without requiring a background check or a waiting period, why can't an uninsured American with a sleep disorder be treated online? The answer: lobbyists! Our industry killed one person so far compared to those above? And we can even play the sympathy card. Reframe the issue of killing the whole industry to going after the "rogue sites" NROP's. The OCS industry was greedy and thought short-term. They screwed themselves as much as they screwed us. For years they've done nothing and yet they do everything possible to adapt to ever new law, every DEA move, every raid on their offices... but nothing to prevent it! Why aren't tanning salons being raided? Why aren't 7/11's being shut down for killing people with the sale of cigarettes? Why aren't gun show operators arrested and fined? They are smart enough to organize and hire lobbyists. OCS owners out there: ban together and do something about it instead of always reacting! Wake up people. My god, if you guys organized it think of the donations you would get from all of us as well! You don't have to go it alone. Work smarter not harder... jjng5
Don't you know drugs are very, very bad. They are un american.
_________________________
Sometimes paranoia's just having all the facts.
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